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Disclaimer: Just an up-front acknowledgement that as I write I'm a fairly new user (~3mo.), so I don't yet have the history or connection that other more experienced users of this site have. Please accept these as the comments of a relative outsider.

Full dislosure: It was an identify question of my own that initially turned me onto this site.




TL;DR

  • Music Fans SE should eliminate or significantly restrict "identify" questions.

There are three sections to this post: (1) Two proposals; (2) Justification; (3) Stats




Two proposals regarding "[identify*]" questions

Proposal #1:

Treat "identify" questions as off-topic for a trial period of 1 year to see what effect it has on overall participation.

...or...

Proposal #2

Significantly restrict the "identify" questions that are on-topic. For example:

  1. Require that any posted video be on a publicly accessible site (e.g., not a personal cloud-share site; not a site requiring fees). (Also in the interest of security. I have no interest in downloading unknown files from random sites.)
  2. Require that the above site track views, and that the submitted video have a minimum such number (e.g., 10,000). This will at least suggest some future usefulness.

Justification

"Identify" questions have been a point of discussion, contention, and, for some, irritation since the inception of Music Fans. For example:

At a practical level, one concern has been that limiting or removing "identify" questions will reduce site growth, which in terms of number of questions is stagnant even with them (see Stats, below). The evidence suggests they may even be suppressing growth.

Speaking only for myself as a newish user, I find "identify"-type questions to be a drag most of the time. They often take a substantial amount of research to answer and are generally of limited long-term or popular value. After three months of looking to "bond" with the site, the "identify" questions are becoming a significant disincentive and have reduced my participation.

I suggest a trial run of either restricting or removing them.

Stats

  1. In Music Fans's first year (Feb - Dec 2015) the ratio of "other" questions to "identify" questions was better than 4:1. However, since 2016, the number of "identify" questions has been holding steady at roughly double, while the number of "other" questions has dropped by more than 50%.
TABLE 1: Questions by year
________________________
      [Identify*]
      ___________
Year   Is    Not   Total
________________________
2020   189   203   392
2019   236   165   401
2018   206   183   389
2017   235   231   466
2016   231   294   525
2015*  108   472   580
_________________________________
*first site question asked 2/2015
  1. "Identify" questions are, to a significant degree, both less impactful and less engaging than other questions.
TABLE 2: Question impact/popularity*
____________________________________________________
                 Averages
          ______________________
Q-type    Score  Views  Favorite  >1 answers/total Q 
____________________________________________________
identify  1       637   0         222/1198 = 18.5%
other     4      2064   1         506/1549 = 32.7%
____________________________________________________
*Based on data from SEDE
SELECT AVG(ViewCount) FROM Posts WHERE Tags LIKE '%identify%'  
SELECT AVG(ViewCount) FROM Posts WHERE Tags NOT LIKE '%identify%'  

SELECT AVG(Score) FROM Posts WHERE Tags LIKE '%identify%'
SELECT AVG(Score) FROM Posts WHERE Tags NOT LIKE '%identify%'

SELECT AVG(FavoriteCount) FROM Posts WHERE Tags LIKE '%identify%'
SELECT AVG(FavoriteCount) FROM Posts WHERE Tags NOT LIKE '%identify%'

SELECT COUNT(AnswerCount) FROM Posts WHERE Tags LIKE '%identify%' AND AnswerCount > 1
SELECT COUNT(AnswerCount) FROM Posts WHERE Tags NOT LIKE '%identify%' AND AnswerCount > 1
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    I'll see if I can link other questions important to the track of identification questions on this site over the next few days. They were supposed to be trial only and it never really seemed successful in my opinion, but was near impossible to roll back once it started. I'll also point out another problem with identification questions on this site in your question which is the one answer you got is incorrect, but still upvoted. The questions are set up so only the OP can validate the question, but anyone can upvote the answer making it have issues on a Q&A site. – Dom Mod Oct 24 '20 at 5:41
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    This question is tangentially related: musicfans.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/421/… . This question was very important for getting ID questions from off topic to on topic: musicfans.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/203/… . – Dom Mod Oct 25 '20 at 19:10
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    About hosting services: musicfans.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/328/… – Bebs Oct 26 '20 at 7:56
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    Much of your argument for making such questions off-topic here is based on the premise that even the mere presence of such questions on this site harms it. Any user who feels this could just use SE's "Ignore tag" feature on this or any other tag. – Rosie F Nov 17 '20 at 12:49
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    @RosieF That's a fair read, but I'm also saying that they aren't helping -- usage is going down even with them, both in terms of total user engagement and per-question engagement. So I propose a time-limited trial run without them to see if that has a positive effect on overall site usage. – Aaron Nov 17 '20 at 16:23
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    @Aaron My apologies, yes. It can’t be abandoned altogether. I did see someone bitterly regret it’s removal on the Movies Stack Exchange site. Many said “It was the reason I first engaged with the site and continue to engage with it”. A large audience will be missed and dismissed, not to mention the considerable amount [closed] dead questions that will be inevitable. – cmp Dec 23 '20 at 0:40
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    The reasoning behind ID questions being removed from M&TV was the sheer number of lazy questions. That some well-researched questions may have been lost, as the baby with the bathwater, I think has seen the overall question quality on there go up. I'm still very much engaged there, whereas here I poke my head in once a month if I'm bored. The ID questions imo are generally zero value. Most of the current front page is either 'name this tune' or 'what genre is this?' both of which are equally pointless. – Tetsujin Dec 24 '20 at 12:39
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    Is there any way to tell how many ID question askers are likely to return & fully engage with the site longer term, vs fly-by askers? – Tetsujin Dec 24 '20 at 12:41
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    The idea of stack exchange as a whole is not to provide value to a single user, but to become a permanent searchable resource for many users. If a question is unsearchable, ie "what's this song? link provided." then it is of literally no value to anyone at all except the asker. Many SE sites have that as a close reason. – Tetsujin Dec 24 '20 at 13:13
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    @Tetsujin If we are prepared to see this particular network even less popular than it is already, we are going the right way about it. I have to say it’s very ironic that the person writing this post was first initially engaged to this site by an identify question. Anyway, Reddit exists and will always dominate this platform. – cmp Dec 24 '20 at 13:39
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    Stack Exchange is not here to emulate Reddit, or any forum-style site. It is a searchable resource for many users. I see no irony in the question - though I do in the answer to the OP's initial post, which though not the right answer was the only one… & it was mine ;) The question itself was at least a good attempt to provide full information & may possibly be googlable. It didn't just say "what's the song in this video?" which has absolutely zero value as a searchable resource. – Tetsujin Dec 24 '20 at 13:45
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    @cmp It sounds like you might be open to setting some tighter criteria for what qualifies as a "good" identify question. I'd be interested in your thoughts on how the criteria could be narrowed to better catch the valuable questions and better filter the "lazy" ones or the ones meant to drive traffic to a YouTube channel, etc. – Aaron Dec 24 '20 at 16:22
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    @Clockwork You've hit on what I see as a major downside of "identify" questions. Unlike a book summary, the questions here rarely contain (specific) enough information, and they tend to rely on links that are apt to go bad eventually. Clearly there are enough people who post/read/answer these questions that they've been kept on the site, but for me personally it's a major disinsentive. I mostly just visit now to help manage the review queues and not much else. – Aaron Apr 4 at 19:46
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    "help me identify" are the worst questions. They are super low quality, other stack exchange sites BSN then for this reason. They offer no value to anyone else other than the original poster and the suck all of the oxygen out of the site for other questions. Kill them, kill them now. – gingerbreadboy Jun 29 at 7:58
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    Low value, poor quality growth is worse than slow growth. – gingerbreadboy Jun 29 at 7:59
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My reflex is to say yes, goodness yes, these questions tend to be such poor quality they is just noise.

However, on reflection, I think there should be some allowed. I think the criteria should be you must include one of the following (or similar)...

  • an actual audio source for the piece of music (for example a youtube video) including a time code (unless it is throughout)
  • the movie or tv show which you heard it in with timecode or just it is the theme song, or the closing credits etc.
  • an actual image of the sheet music, but not something the OP has produced, an actual source

So this makes the following unacceptable...

  • Half remembered lyrics (something about a lover who leaves early in the morning?)
  • vague thematic descriptions (a syth song with dark themes about nuclear war?)
  • descriptions of music videos (children wearing dolls masks?)
  • OP produced recordings of melody or chords
  • OP produced partial score, chord progressions, or musical description (a descending bass line with a reggae guitar and a woman singing)

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